Life after football. What happens when the game ends? | Ryan Gonsalves

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hello and welcome to the Career Changers podcast. I'm Elisa Martiniig and I'm the founder and editor-in-chief of the Career Changers. I'm definitely one of them. I learned from my experience that following our dreams requires courage, self-awareness and a lot of inner work. I love to discover stories of career change and share them with the world as a source of inspiration for all those who are still searching.

Speaker 1: 0:28

Career changes are not straightforward chronology written in our CVs, but the sum-up of our dreams, ambitions, failures and successes. The Career Changers is an online community that aims to inspire thousands of people during their journey to self-realization. We discover and share inspirational real-life stories of career change. We inspire people that are thinking to change career. We support people that want or need to change career but feel stuck or lacking confidence and clarity. We connect and collaborate with organizations that support career change across different industries. I believe that thinking to have only one job or career in our life is a limiting belief unless the job or that career make us happy. Life is a journey and, with one third of our lives spent working, it would be unimaginable to not have a desire to explore new avenues.

Speaker 1: 1:29

Welcome to the Career Changers podcast. Hello and welcome to a new episode of the Career Changers. Today we are going to talk about how to make a successful football career transition with some exclusive tips from a professional. Our guest is Ryan Gonzalez, former professional footballer, turn global banker and now CEO and entrepreneur. Hi Ryan, thank you so much for joining us.

Speaker 2: 2:02

Thanks for having me Looking forward to having a chat with you today.

Speaker 1: 2:06

Let's start with your background. What was your dream job when you were a child?

Speaker 2: 2:11

Oh, that takes me back. Actually it was a mechanic. I wanted to be a car mechanic, which I think is inspired because my dad he was a mechanic. As I was growing up and I think going to the shop with him and seeing all the cars set up, that was something that really got me going, got me really interested and I essentially wanted to become a roadside mechanic like the AAA or automobile association and that, for me, was really what I wanted to be when I was a child.

Speaker 1: 2:46

That's quite funny, because usually everyone wants to be a football player.

Speaker 2: 2:52

No, no, it's true. I didn't want to be a football player as I grew up. I guess that wasn't what shone for me. That wasn't there.

Speaker 1: 3:04

So then, how and when did you start thinking about becoming a football player?

Speaker 2: 3:10

Well, it was probably more to do with my brother. So my elder brother, who's two years older than me. I had to go with him to play football, and I was a young, ultimately raising us by herself. So if I wanted to play football, I had to go with him in order to play, and I think all of those older boys I was always a younger, smaller kid compared to them and that just meant football for me was just something you had a bit of fun with, it was the thing I did in the afternoons. And then, when I was about 13 years old, I stopped playing with my older brother's team and moved to my own age group, and at that time, football it was like wow, hey, I'm good at this. I'm, you know, in my own age group. Suddenly I became faster, stronger and I found I was really good at it, and so it was probably from around that age that I started to find the love for the game of football and want to become a professional player.

Speaker 1: 4:09

So while you were practicing football, I guess you were also going to school. So what is your educational background?

Speaker 2: 4:17

Yeah, listen, I, I loved school. You know I whisper that at times, but not many athletes will will say that, or certainly professional footballers would say that, but I really enjoyed school and so academics, education, was something, certainly after football. I picked up again and so I ended up. I have a degree. I got my MBA at the University of Manchester's International School, out in Hong Kong, and I'm a management accountant and you know I continue to love and learn and most recently, while my most recent qualification would have been a graduate certificate in education focusing on career practice and career management, that's very impressive and it's approved that a career in sport doesn't prevent to have also an extensive educational background.

Speaker 1: 5:10

Yeah it was your first job.

Speaker 2: 5:13

Well, look, my first job was as a footballer. That really was, for me, where it all started. So at 16 years old I left school. So I did my last GCSE on the like the Thursday towards the end of June, and then by the Monday I was in a full-time football environment as a 16-year-old, playing with all of these men doing laps, getting fit for what was pre-season. So that was my first professional experience.

Speaker 1: 5:45

What was that?

Speaker 2: 5:47

Yeah, so the first team I played for was Huddersfield Town, so that for me was, you know, 25k from home, travelling over, so not very far, but certainly the journey just to get to that part covered a lot of miles and a lot of energy.

Speaker 1: 6:03

So how did you happen? You ended up there?

Speaker 2: 6:07

Well, as a junior, I'm a Leeds boy, so I was born and bred in Leeds and I played at the Leeds juniors for the Leeds City team and essentially I was part of a. Around me was a crop of world-class players and I just didn't. I just wasn't at that level. As it turned out, you know, many of those boys went on to play at the World Cup and really compete at the highest level. That, I guess, wasn't a path for me, so ultimately I moved to Huddersfield Town. That's where I signed my apprenticeships and also signed, as a later sign, as a professional footballer and had a great few years there and perhaps not the right outcome when I look back, but certainly a great few years of being a full-time and professional athlete.

Speaker 1: 6:52

So how was the stage of progressing your career in football during the years?

Speaker 2: 6:58

So, look it was. It was. It was challenging, I would say, being a footballer, whilst it looks like this really constantly fun environment where you're living out your dream. It was absolutely fantastic I've got to give it that, but it was really hard work it was. You know, the routine, the regularity of training and pushing yourself physically and mentally, when mental health wasn't really a thing.

Speaker 2: 7:25

But pushing yourself physically and mentally to be your best every day was something that really does sort of take it out of you and a lot of the time you're thinking, well, I'm lucky to be here, I've got to keep on playing, but at times you didn't really feel like that. That was, you know, the right thing that you wanted to do for yourself. So quite a challenging experience and for me that came to what I would consider a premature end in terms of that dream, as I left full-time football with Huddersfield Town and made a decision to move into semi-professional football at another local club, halifax. But by moving semi-professionally, that enabled me to well, to really move back into education and to work. You know, go to Huddersfield University and work towards getting a marketing and French degree.

Speaker 1: 8:19

So then, after that, how did you transition from being a football player to becoming a football coach? And, if I'm not wrong, you moved to the US, then, yeah yeah.

Speaker 2: 8:30

So, look, that opportunity was awesome. It very much came about because the major league soccer was really kicking off in the US and what they were looking for were coaches qualified and very experienced coaches to come over to the US and work with their high performance or high performing youth junior travel teams. And so I was lucky enough, being a, you know, a professional footballer. It worked out that during the English summer months I was able to go over and spend my time in that summer season over in the US working on some of the MLS camps and also spending a lot of time under that umbrella of Chicago fire out in the Midwest, and also sometime with the New England team over, obviously, on the East Coast. So, you know, really got to have a great experience as a coach. But the transition for me was most challenging in not being a player and trying to get the best out of others without doing it and showing it myself. So that was, you know, it was a fun time for me to learn how to, I guess, deliver rather than do.

Speaker 1: 9:40

So how did you find it emotionally transitioning from being on the pitch to actually being on the other side? Did you miss it? Did you have some challenges?

Speaker 2: 9:51

Yeah, fomo. So that fear of missing out was probably the biggest thing that I had, as a coach rather than as a player. I really and still being young and still, you know, being a semi professional footballer at the time it did mean that I found it, at times, difficult to, I guess, just disconnect from you know, getting on the field and wanting to say no, not like that, watch me. This is how I would do it, and what I learned from that situation, though, was how to really break down the steps in something that can be natural but quite technical, but being able to take the time to break it down into simple steps that somebody else could then follow, and indeed then sort of make it their own. That was probably the best thing that I learned, but, yeah, biggest challenge definitely staying on the sidelines, staying in my box and not trying to do everything.

Speaker 1: 10:43

So you mentioned before then, during your years as a footballer, you also had some moments when you were thinking about your mental health and that topic was not something that was really discussed openly as it is today, and I guess another one is a career change itself. Did you find the career change was a topic that was discussed openly between football players and also managers, or something more left on the side and then, when the end of your career comes, you have to deal with it?

Speaker 2: 11:19

it was left on the side. The life after football wasn't a discussion amongst footballers. When we were footballers, it was very much about being in that moment and being there as a team. When we had a late night game and a away game on a Wednesday, the expectation was well, you're gonna be, you'll report to training on Thursday, you're not taking time out to go and study or do some other training course in some way. It was very much about being present and being a footballer. The only time you would consider something else would have been later in your career, when you then started to look at coaching. But look, the talk of doing something whilst being a player. Very, very few players did it. I know, certainly at Huddersfield at the time, there's maybe one or two lads who were out there trying to do a course, but it just was not a topic of discussion as ours as a footballer.

Speaker 1: 12:20

And what are the biggest challenges of a career change in the sporting industry? We already mentioned that at the time there were not enough conversations. Do you think things have changed and there is more support out there nowadays?

Speaker 2: 12:37

Listen, things have changed. Things have changed a lot in terms of supporting athletes, supporting footballers, in that transition. I think it's now a lot more recognised by both the clubs and the playing associations that there's more that needs to be done. So in many professional Olympic-type sports you will find that there is access to career support, career and education support.

Speaker 2: 13:04

I myself was lucky that through the PFA, the Professional Footballers Association, I was able to access grants and those grants actually helped co-fund a lot of my education In fact I'm going to say all my education from since being a footballer through to this day.

Speaker 2: 13:23

And that's something that I think is really important is removing the financial burden to move into that next step or to think about that education pathway. That's there and what is now there even more is the support from career practitioners, career professionals who can help to guide and mould some of the thinking around all players, certainly at a young age, but also as they approach that transition period. So I think globally I'm seeing, like I say, clubs and associations really stepping up, but there's still a massive gap. There's still a massive gap between what the athlete needs and what they receive and that really can be broken down into awareness of what's out there, access so how close is it? And then focus how tuned in is that support that they can get towards helping them really look at that career after sport? And those three things I think still remain a bit of a gap.

Speaker 1: 14:25

It comes to mind to me that there are some stories of big football players that actually were very successful at times and then they sort of disappeared totally. They got forgotten and they didn't have maybe the tools to transition to fulfilling careers and they ended up doing completely other, different type of work, or sometimes things didn't work so well for them because, also, you're going from a career where you're used to be, you know, like a sort of a star to suddenly the normal average world. So I think there is a lot of there is a lack of support of how to do this transition mentally and emotionally.

Speaker 2: 15:20

Yeah, there really is. There is that lack of support and there are too many stories out there of players, athletes, who reach these global highs, who are really successful in the sport, and then when it's time to transition or shift, it becomes a failure. They are failure by the society that supports them or the community that supports them to help them imagine and then plan for that career after sport. And that's really why I have become passionate about supporting athletes in that transition, in finding their second wind. You know, I'm really moving into that life beyond sports and that's something that still continues to this day and really trying to make sure athletes can identify what skills can they bring from being a footballer, what can they bring from that that helps them create or bring value to people, to society, in that life after the game.

Speaker 1: 16:24

Well, you had a successful career transition story. First of all you became a coach, but then, after that, you also transitioned from the sporting industry to the corporate and business world. What challenges did you have to overcome to achieve that transition?

Speaker 2: 16:47

Yeah, look, I'll say that my transition looks like it was a wonderful and seamless transition from, as you say, from sport and world to coaching and studying through into the corporate world and to where I am today. But, like you asked, it was full of challenges and still, to this day, there are challenges. For me, probably the biggest ones that really came through was this sort of a lack of confidence or sense of really imposter syndrome, so feeling like, hey, I don't know if I really belong here, I don't know if I've got the skills to actually do that, and so that imposter syndrome is one of the, I guess, the main elements that I struggled with as I transitioned. And the second one is the lack of feedback. So I'm going from a sporting environment where the feedback is instant If I mess up a pass, the crowd is going to shout and cheer, or cheer If I make a great tackle. I can hear it and I can feel it. So that reward every Saturday if I, every training session, I know whether I'm progressing or not Moving into the corporate world.

Speaker 2: 18:01

That feedback isn't like that. It's a quarterly review, an annual review at worst, and what I was used to was this hey, so how was that. Did it work? Was this something? Do you like it? Shall I keep doing it again? And I just wasn't getting that sort of feedback. So those two coupled together really made it a bit challenging. They made it challenging from a you know, like I say, from a imposter syndrome or lack of confidence, coupled with this dearth of feedback to let me know. Was I on the right path?

Speaker 1: 18:32

Which step did you take to transition to the corporate world?

Speaker 2: 18:37

Yeah, look, it's a good question. There weren't necessarily steps. There were perhaps more stumbles in many respects, and the way that sort of came about was when I left or graduated university and I had football with me, my now wife and I, we moved. We moved to the south of France. We moved to the south of France simply because we, you know, I couldn't see what job I was going to get. I knew I love football, but that time that I spent in Lyon working for oddly enough, working for roadside assistance.

Speaker 2: 19:13

I've kind of just figured that out myself.

Speaker 2: 19:15

You know, I did get to roadside mechanics and assistance, but I was on the call centre, but doing that for a year, a year and a half.

Speaker 2: 19:24

What that made was that made me attractive to a global business like GE Capital, who was looking for somebody who could work in a global context, that had a marketing degree, knew how to work as a team, and so by essentially taking a break, gaining experience, getting an understanding of myself, I managed to move into the corporate sector.

Speaker 2: 19:48

Because when I applied it was okay, we need somebody who's got a business degree, who speaks another language, and I was like, oh well, I'm a business, I've got a business degree and well, I'm living in France, so I speak another language. Does that help? And it did. And so it's not like it was intentional for me to move into the corporate sector and move through GE Capital, but what I did was what was intentional was for me to go out and gain a new experience and and and, and you know, build my skills and see some of the world. And what it turns out is that was a skill that, as we moved into the, you know, 2000s, that was a skill that was extremely powerful and, you know, helped me to, to move, indeed accelerate, through the corporate ladder.

Speaker 1: 20:35

Today, thanks to your experience, you're helping others post people to transition to a new career successfully. So how do you keep athletes for the first year working in their new careers? That seems to be the most challenging time.

Speaker 2: 20:52

Yeah, look, I think, coming to your question, you know, around that first year and the most challenging time for me, I focus really on three things with athletes. That's giving them clarity, giving them confidence and giving them a game plan so that they can really shift from that sporting career into a corporate or public sector, not-for-profit or for purpose type career. In that very first year, once they've got that job and they know where they want to go, really I taught them about slowing down. I let them know that, look, they didn't become as good as they were as an athlete in a year. It wasn't overnight, it wasn't one year, it was a decade. It was a period of learning and purposeful practice and trying things out in order to get to that point of excellence.

Speaker 2: 21:44

And so I remind them of that during that first year out of being an athlete. Let them know hey, this is the first step. It's that first step on a path and you know that it's going to have twists and turns, just like it did when you became excellent on the lead athlete. So let's begin again. We've got your purpose sorted out, we know where you're good and what value you can bring. We've got a plan to execute, so let's go ahead and do that, but it's good We've got this.

Speaker 1: 22:15

Well, let's go back to your experience and career. So do you have? I guess you may have many, but do you have an interesting or funny stories to share with us?

Speaker 2: 22:30

Oh, there are always many, but listen, one that I will share is probably not from me, but it's one that I was told by somebody whilst I was talking to athletes about how they transition and their experience, and it comes from one lady. You know, an Olympian, and she was just explaining to me how, when she left that Olympic environment, that high pay, that fast pace, that competitive environment and where the teams really bond when she then joined the corporate sector, you know, she came in on her first day. She sat down at the desk and, as a lady opposite her who you know, just said to her hey morning, how are you doing? And straight away she thought, oh, hi, hey, this is my partner in life, this is someone who we're going to compete, we're going to go all the way together. We are a team. This is absolutely fantastic. We're going to win the Olympics together. This is it the rest of my career.

Speaker 2: 23:21

And it wasn't. It was just someone who was politely saying hi, and shall we go get a cup of tea? And what I love about that is, you know, for me as an athlete, I always think, yeah, you want to go through thick and thin together and build this real team spirit, whereas when you're in an office environment it's not always like that. People have very different reasons for being at that place of work and it's not necessarily to be a high performing team or to conquer everything. So I always find that one for me very funny, for and certainly no athletes listening will will recognize that, and someone else who's has an athlete starting with them on that first day of work is recognized that they're probably going to want to go all the way with you and this is going to be something to you know to win. But it's okay, we'll get there.

Speaker 1: 24:06

It's really insightful and this is something that makes me think also, generally, people that are in military as well have this type of challenges when transition from from military world, where there is a lot of cooperation and support towards each other, to a more of an individualist world, let's say.

Speaker 2: 24:27

Yes, yes, yes, very true.

Speaker 1: 24:29

And it's really important to have someone like you know, the athletes can can come and talk to you, because otherwise, I mean, that's, that's something that can make you feel very lonely all of a sudden, to not have someone that is there to support you and that you can share everything with.

Speaker 2: 24:47

Yeah, listen, it's so true. And that sense of loneliness, that sense of uniqueness in the world sometimes is detriment. It pulls athletes back when they feel, wow, am I the only person who you know late 20s or 30s? Am I the only person who doesn't know what they want to be now? Am I the only who's lost? And they get that sense. And one of the first things I do through my you know design, your career program, is introduce them to other athletes around the world and what that does is suddenly that gets them recognizing oh, I'm not the only person, there are others who are going through this. And it builds that again, that team, that camaraderie and also that accountability for one another. They get that again as they start to transition careers.

Speaker 1: 25:34

Yeah, and that's really important is I liked it many times the power of the group to know that we are not alone, and so to share our fears, insecurities and you know our journey with other people that are the same place that can give us strength. So what life or transferable skills have you learned on the pitch that have been essential to become successful in a new career?

Speaker 2: 25:59

It's a great question. Look, one of them, probably one of the big two for me, is communication and a strategy or tactics. So, on the field, I was a defender, I was very loud. I often found myself as a captain in the teams, and I would really learn how to communicate effectively to others, get them to execute on a plan and pull them together, and that, for me, is doing that under pressure.

Speaker 2: 26:28

What words do we need to use to one another? What can we? You know, how do we communicate effectively as a team, especially when it's loud? So what are the different things that we may do? You know physically or indeed verbalising to one another where we should be going. And so, on top of that, communication comes a. You know you have a game plan, you have tactics, you have this view of well, what do we want to achieve for this year? We want to win the league. You don't stop with great, let's go out and win the league. You know that you've got games to get you there. You know that you've got training that you need to get into. And so the way for me, that has translated, and I found myself in strategic planning, and that strategic planning is exactly the same as what we had as a player, and certainly as a coach, to try and move us through a long season. So, without doubt, for me, the two biggest things I've learned or I brought with me from the football field is that communication, or effective communication, and strategic planning.

Speaker 1: 27:28

I find that very insightful and I think one of the biggest challenges generally when transitioning career is to identify transferable skills. So I guess for sports people the day-to-day activity is so different compared to an office jobs or corporate role. It's really important to have an example like this and I really like it. Strategy and vision that can be translated then in a new job and in a new career. So type of advice would you give to anyone that is moving along their path to self-realization?

Speaker 2: 28:15

Look, I think the biggest thing, if I had to pick one, it would be to find what energizes you. Find what gets you up in the morning, find what keeps you awake, find what is it that keeps you going, and often we talk about find your passion and live through that passion. For me, I look at it as well what gives you that energy? Because a lot of things that we have as athletes is this energy, this perseverance to get to that end goal, to train hard, to work hard, and that's usually driven because there's something that energizes us, there's a dream, that core motivation. And I think one of the first things in my experience is when you're going through that self-reflection and you're thinking about where am I going to go to next, how to build myself back up. So much of that comes through that energy. Find that energy source and with that you can achieve so much.

Speaker 1: 29:12

What advice would you give specifically to sports people looking to change their career?

Speaker 2: 29:21

Look, I think that the energy piece is probably there. I think for an athlete or sports person looking to change their careers, definitely to talk is to find other athletes or speak to other athletes, find those who have gone through it and certainly as an athlete, you've gone through much of your life with a coach who's helped you with specialised and specific elements. I think now, as we look at the world of work, the future of work, finding a career coach, finding someone who can give you that guidance, give you those, I'll say, accelerators. It's still hard work, you've still got to go through it, but can you accelerate through the process? I think finding that is probably a key thing.

Speaker 1: 30:01

And now the last question. If you could give yourself a piece of advice, what would you say to your younger self?

Speaker 2: 30:10

To my younger self I would probably say be brave enough to find a mentor who sees the world bigger than you do, who sees it, who knows what the opportunities are out there, who perhaps knows what some of the pitfalls are still enable me to experience and to learn. But so many times as I look back in my life, in my career, I think if only I've realised the top of the mountain was up there rather than here, I would have just kept going. And so that's probably the big advice be brave enough to find a mentor who knows more than you.

Speaker 1: 30:50

I love that. Well, thank you, ryan, so much for joining us today, inspiring people, sports people that are transitioning their career, and sharing your inspirational career change story.

Speaker 2: 31:04

Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1: 31:06

Thanks and a last message for our listeners Don't forget to subscribe to our channel and to the next week for a new inspirational episode of the Career Changes. Thank you.